Andrea Taylor from the Public Information Department interviews Peter Hatch, History & Archeology Specialist
Free resources for researching Siletz Family History
Virtual Culture Camp, introduction to family history research by Peter Hatch: https://vimeo.com/726179542
Historic Oregon Newspapers (including many years of the Oregonian, Lincoln County Leader, and Weekly Chemawa American): https://oregonnews.uoregon.edu/
FindAGrave – Cemetery information: https://www.findagrave.com/
Siletz Indian Census, 1885-1940: https://archive.org/search?query=Indian+census+siletz
FamilySearch (a free site similar to Ancestry.com, though operated by the LDS Church): https://www.familysearch.org/
– for example, 1900 Federal Census of Siletz (account required): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67T9-8WK?wc=9B77-YHM%3A1030550601%2C1030608101%2C1031185701%26cc%3D1325221&cc=1325221&i=0
Transcript
Andy
Hello everyone and welcome. My name is Andrea Taylor and I’m the public relations assistant. And today I have Peter Hatch. Peter, how are you?
Peter
I’m great. Good morning everybody. Yeah. My name is, Peter Sv-gvs Hatch. Sv-gvs means, Black Bear. And I’m a tribal member. And I work as the history and archeology specialist in our culture department. Thanks for having me.
Andy
Thank you for coming on.
Peter
Yeah, it’s it’s really my pleasure. And, Yeah, it’s, I, I’ve been really excited that this podcast exists since I listened to a lot of podcasts myself. So it’s been really fun that it’s been going well.
Andy
You are the one that proposed this podcast today, and we have a really special agenda, and I’m so glad that you like the podcast. It was it was years in the making, and I’m hoping that our listeners are enjoying it as well.
Peter
Yeah, I can I can speak for, two in my household. My wife’s not a tribal member, but she enjoys listening to.
Andy
And I’ll take it
Peter
You’re getting an audience.
Andy
Anybody that listens. All right, so let’s start with some questions. Tell me about what a history and archeology specialist does.
Peter
Yeah. So, compared to some other, tribes around the northwest, we’re kind of a a small shop. So, you’ve had, my, supervisor, our cultural resources manager, Buddy Lane, on the podcast already. And, we’re within the education department, but, really, myself and buddy and with a lot of help from our, language and cultural arts instructor, Nick Viles, and cultural education Manager, AJ Warren, and then, Marci Simmons in our office, too. We do a whole bunch of different things related to the history of our people. So, you know, our department puts on culture camp. I’m just, help her out with that. Always at the dental. You neck necklace, string station. That’s always the best three days of my work year.
But we’re doing all kinds of other stuff, like, writing up our curriculum. You know, there’s always all kinds of archeology going around, going on, within our ancestral territory. You know, when they need to do compliance before a new road or development goes in. So we’re the point of contact with that. But, also really trying to, you know, gather all the information that we can, about the history of our people and put it to good use. Sometimes that’s for external facing things like, we’re consulting. If someone’s putting up a public memorial or a museum exhibit, that sort of thing. But really, my favorite stuff that we get to do is when, tribal members ask us questions. And even if we don’t know, we can help folks figure things out.
Andy
So you kind of answered my next question was, what all are you involved in? And that that summed it up. So, what other roles do you have then? Committees or boards that you’re sitting on?
Peter
Yeah. So I, I am on the, committee for, the, tribal, tell them the farm property, up on Logsdon Road. And it’s been a real joy to see that, develop and come to fruition. Over the last, really just a few short years, it’s been amazing what the staff have been able to do there and then external to the tribe, but really connected, in my view, to this work.
I’m on the board of a small nonprofit that’s working on, in partnership with, with CTSI and with a lot of other tribes around the northwest thinking about if it’s going to be possible to bring sea otters back to Oregon, which we’ve been missing now for about 110 years and which have a real, drastic, cultural, impact. You know, it was something that our folks always, relied on. It’s, and was very important to folks back when we had them, so, yeah, I really enjoy that work that we’re called the Elakha Alliance after the, Chinook jargon word for sea otter.
Andy
So sea otters, they’re not at all, like in our oceans? Or are they just nearly extinct?
Peter
So they are entirely gone. As a self-sustaining population off the Oregon coast, they’ve been completely hunted out. Basically, originally, it used to be all the way between, like San Francisco Bay and Alaska. There were none. But there have been successful reintroductions in Washington, British Columbia. And Southeast Alaska that have, brought them back. And so occasionally one of those Washington Otters comes down here or actually back in July, it was two. And that was the first time in a long time anyone had seen two otters, in the wild and or sea otters in, the wild in Oregon. And, we hope that if we did, a reintroduction somewhere where they have good habitat and then they could mix with those Washington otters that are starting to come down, and it would be healthier for the population overall and would be especially beneficial to, where we have kelp forests offshore that are really important to all kinds of, fish and species that our folks rely on. So we hope that it would, you know, have real long term benefits for our ocean.
Andy
And some really good work you guys are doing.
Peter
Yeah. Well, it’s a it’s a fun side project. I really love that, too.
Andy
You should be pretty proud of that. That’s awesome.
Peter
Thank you.
Andy
Well, in terms of introducing you, that is all I have. We have a kind of a special program that you, had and I was excited about. And, I’m going to hand it over to you and let you start conducting the podcast special.
Peter
Okay, great. Yeah. Well, so this started off in my mind, where we were having a conversation and it’s it’s not unlike conversations that I myself have had or felt at times where, you know, I was asking you about what you knew about family history and you said, oh, I really know nothing. And, you know, I didn’t grow up in Siletz. You didn’t grow up in Siletz. And I think for a lot of tribal members, there’s a real feeling, you know, maybe you grew up around your grandparents. But there’s sort of. And, you know, you’re indigenous in some way. But really figuring out what that means is a journey and takes a long time. And you don’t always feel like you have, a way to go.
That’s certainly how I felt growing up. And I felt like, you know, being in this work that we do and, trying to gather information, we come across a lot of the pieces of people’s family history, and I’ve learned a lot more, about my family. Just sort of casually, well, reading other stuff for my job, and I think it’s really important that we have ways to share that with folks.
And so, what we decided to do, kind of like, in the style of that, public broadcasting show Finding Your Roots. We’re going to be going through, Andy’s family tree, you know, starting with some information that, she gave me and then working our way, backwards. As far as I am able to. And to the best of my understanding right now, I don’t mean at all, to contradict any, you know, family information. But, it was really fun to, dive into, you know, old newspapers, the stuff that’s available on the web, the census records, to try to put together the best picture that I could. And I hope, by the end of this conversation, give you a bit of the sense of that family history that you didn’t really feel like you grew up with.
Andy
Yeah, I, I didn’t have it growing up. I know that my mom said that she lived here for quite some time in early childhood, and she knew a lot of aunts and uncles and cousins. And then when she moved to Idaho, which is where I was born and raised, it was they weren’t there. I had family there, but they well, my aunts, my aunt, my mom’s siblings had kids. And so my cousins were there around me. But that was it. And that was the only connection I really had to being a Siletz tribal member until I was like 22 when I moved here.
Peter
Yeah. But all of our families are, you know, I didn’t, by the way, find any way, in doing this that, that we’re cousins, but, like, far enough back, like, we’re.
Andy
All we’re all cousins.
Peter
And we’re all part of the same story. And what’s really great about the, what I’m hopefully going to unfold with you is that, You know, there are many, many different Siletz Tribal experiences and going all the way back to, like, early reservation days. You know, you could in some ways tell the story of our people or confederation as the combination of the folks who were forcibly removed, who had to leave their homelands to come to this place, such as, you know, you know, a lot of folks came up from the Rogue River country, or the Chetco and, you know, Southern Oregon.
And that’s why we do run to the rogue to, you know, return to that homeland. And then there are also the people who, who had always lived on, you know, what? What is just suddenly popping up as an Indian reservation and having all these people from outside who are, you know, indigenous but indigenous to someplace else kind of like dropped on their heads and, you know, one side of your family, is part of that, you know, Southern Oregon, that removal experience.
And another side of your family is, you know, Tillamook people who had always lived, in, you know, inside of what became this reservation and so on, on both of those sides. We’re going to just, start with your grandma and, and then, work our way back. Okay. Let’s dive in. So I divided this into chapters.
Chapter one, we’re going to be talking about, Gloria Jean Flannery, by the way. Also all throughout, just because it’s easier and because a lot of times women had multiple marriages throughout their life, I’m going to be referring to women by their maiden names. Okay. Just, if it’s confusing enough, you maybe folks would know, your grandma by, her married name, Gloria Suitter. But we’re just sticking with maiden names to keep it consistent throughout.
Andy
I can handle that.
Peter
All right. So do you want to, read for me a little bit of, this, this thing that you found in the news that really got us kicked off here.
Andy
I know I was I was so excited when I found this. I found this looking for something completely unrelated. And I was like, oh, I think I know that woman. That’s my grandma. And I was so excited. It just happened to work perfectly with this podcast. Do you want to read all of it or just what’s the most important part to you?
Peter
Let’s see. Let’s, you know, we can read all of it.
Andy
Okay. So this is a community announcement that I found in our own Siletz News. And it is after the passing of my grandma and she passed when I was, very young. And it says the family of Gloria Flannery Suitter would like to thank Dino Butler. Sage Butler, Farrell Cocknum.
Peter
Yeah, I think so.
Andy
Lorraine Burke, Selene Rilatos, Laverne Butler and Glenna Tweedy Gardner, for a wonderful service for our loved one. It was done with such love and care and special giving for our taking, and and for taking time, away from their busy life to help us in our time of sorrow. We would also like to thank Reggie Butler for his beautiful songs at the cemetery.
We are so sad that we would have never gotten this done without all of your help.
Peter
I think that’s a good place to leave it. That’s okay. And that was great. I just, I think, there are a couple more paragraphs, you know, about the, the folks who helped out in the kitchen and the flowers, but, I, I just love that little piece because of the sense of gratitude that it conveys and, you know, like, community helping, you know, I think there’ll be familiar names to all of the listeners, in those folks who helped out with your grandma?
Andy
Well, I know who Selene is!
Peter
Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think that, just that consistency of community over time, is a good place to begin this, this story. So, but in order to, work our way back, as quickly as we can to the past, let’s turn over the page. And what you’ll see is a printout from a website.
That’s called, Find a Grave, which is sort of an online database that, as far as I’ve seen, even some of our tribal members contribute to, documenting family cemeteries, really all around the country, in the world. And I want to emphasize this to the listener because, it can be a really useful tool for, a free resource to track your own family history and see what other relatives have posted, even folks who might not personally know.
And so this is, a little, story or website that goes along with, your grandma’s, interment at the Logan family cemetery. Near near Otis. Just, beside the salmon River. And you’ll see, you know, some of her, your grandma’s siblings, and her parents, listed there, too, who are also, at rest there.
So, as we go along, I want to be emphasizing, resources that the listener can use to find out good information about your own family. So let’s go ahead and flip over the page, and start chapter two, and let’s talk about, Gloria’s mom, Agnes, Agatha Logan, and, you know, I don’t know a lot about this would be your great grandma. But I do know, that she was brave and she had convictions. So let’s turn over the page.
So this here, what we’re looking at together is a marriage certificate, for Raymond Flannery and, Agnes Logan. He lives in the lake, which is part of Lincoln City now. And she lives in Otis again, right next to Lincoln City. But do you notice up there at the top, where, this marriage license is being issued from.
Andy
It says the state of Washington.
Peter
Yeah. And County of Clark. So they, they were in Vancouver and, to explain a little bit about why, you know, Raymond was white and, obviously your great grandma Agnes, was native, and let’s turn over the page again and, I’m going to read, these underlined portions of a law passed by the state of Oregon that we all live in. Back on October 24th of 1866. Hereafter, it shall not be lawful within this state for any white person, male or female, to intermarry with any Negro, Chinese, or any person having one fourth or more Negro, Chinese or Kanaka blood, any person having more than one half Indian blood, and all such marriages or attempted marriages shall be absolutely no and void.
In the next section, such person or persons, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary or county jail not less than three months or more than one year.
Andy
So and that was for the state of Oregon. Yeah.
Peter
That was this was this was the state of Oregon, passed in 1866 and not repealed until 1951.
Andy
And they got married.
Peter
In 1946. So just to kind of think about the world that they grew up in and to get married, as you know, an interracial couple at a time when the state that they lived in said you could go to jail for that. I always think about, you know, with all the problems that we face now, like, the a lot of things have gotten better.
And just to imagine, you know, that’s just a little bit before my dad was born, to that, if they didn’t live in Oregon at the time, but my grandparents marriage would have been illegal under this law, when they got married and around the same year, and it’s just, I don’t know, I think it it’s one of the things about our, our history in change that really, shocks and disturbs me about, the state that we live in, you know.
Andy
It makes you really thankful for the environment that we have. Now. We can marry whoever we want.
Peter
Right? Yeah. And to know that, you know, your, your great grandma Agnes, grew up in a world where that was only possible for her if she made it possible if she and her fiance, you know, got brave and drove up to Washington and did the thing no matter what, their own state, or I might say, I think that’s really brave.
Andy
I think that’s really resourceful and shows some determination to their relationship.
Peter
Yeah! So we’re going to turn over the page now to chapter three. About, Agnes’s parents, James F Logan SR. And Gertrude Curl.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
So turning it over again, and what we’re looking at now is the admission book. For, new students coming into Chemewa Indian School just north of Salem. You know, a boarding school, where a lot of students, were sent. And can you read what I, what I have highlighted there?
Andy
Yeah, it says, last name first, and then first name. So it says Cruel Gertrude. And then in parentheses, it is full Tillamook, age 7, female. November 6th, 1907.
Yeah. So this is the record of, of your great, your great great grandma, being sent from her home into boarding school. And, you know, she’s, of course, from Oregon, but you can see, down the page that, there are students being sent there from all over. So there’s, I see Iroquois, Chinook, Cherokee, Klamath, Umpqua.
Yeah. And so she’s, having grown up, you know, in, in her own community right there. And you notice in, in the near Lincoln City, she’s being sent, away into this new environment.
Andy
Well, in, in in today’s world, Tillamook, ta Salem is a two hour drive. Three hours max, if traffic is terrible. But in 1907, that was not the same , especially as alone as a seven year old.
Peter
That’s right.
Andy
You know, I’m thinking about my son. He’s seven, and I’m like, gahh.
Peter
Thats right, but there is a there is good news and I want you to turn over the page again. And so this is from the Chemawa student paper on November 8th. Just a couple days later, and it says, Henry Cruel, the father of, Eddie, Marion and Maggie, writes from Otis, that they started for Chemawa. And then on the next column, Mr. Enright returned from Grand Ronde on Wednesday, bringing Eddie, Marion, Maggie and Gertrude curl with him. So as opposed to a lot of students like my great grandma, who was sent up without any siblings, I hope that at least it’s, helpful to think about that. Gertrude had a posse.
Your great your grandma had some siblings there, and it’s even covered in the German student paper that her dad, came to visit. But it’s like you say, it’s a two hour drive now, but, such a long, drive that he has to write a letter ahead of time to say that to say that he’s come in and the letter gets it, gets there ahead of him.
Andy
That’s awesome. I like that. And so that’s from 1907.
Peter
Yes. So. Yeah. So we’re already, well, more than 100 years back in your family history.
Andy
Two days later. That’s awesome. Okay. Yeah.
Peter
And so, turning over again, we also have, your great, great grandpa, James Logan, listed as, three quarter blood, Siletz, 13 years old, male. And he started at Chemawa in, December 15th, 1908. So you have to think that, even if they didn’t know each other as kids, as little kids, they probably.
Andy
Who were together that. Yeah. Yeah.
Peter
At that Chemawa They probably they, had that shared experience. So another big theme, about our folks is history. And, you know, which we have the whole, veterans Memorial and, Memorial Day service is dedicated to is that so many of our folks, have served in the military in some capacity or other. So the next couple of things we’re going to be looking at are, your great great grandpa James Logan’s, draft registration card, where he signed up for the military in The Dalles, Oregon, on June 15th, 1918. So when World War One was going on, I’m sure hopefully, you know, some family members out there have more information or pictures. But he didn’t just register for the draft. He did serve.
The next page is a, kind of a card file, from the Veterans Administration that says, James Logan United States Marine Corps private from Otis, Oregon, entered service in July of 1918 and was discharged in August of 1919. So he served more than a year, I don’t think, I don’t haven’t run into any evidence that, he served overseas the way other some other sorts men did. Like, our Paul Washington cemetery is named after, a young man, who lost his life, fighting in France.
But, I hope that it’s a little bit of an interesting thing to know about James. Your great, great grandpa, that he served and served honorably, and he was a marine. Some. Yeah.
So we’re going to keep on moving here and heading into chapter four. Talk about James’s parents, Abraham or Abe Logan and Louisa Woodman. So turn over the page again. And we are looking at a picture. You want to describe it a little to me.
Andy
It’s like a family photo. In some deep woods, there is two babies and a dog.
Peter
That’s right.
Andy
So it does. It does say who they are at the bottom, by the way.
Peter
Yeah, I, I did put that in, but for my own reference,
Andy
And this is hard to distinguish. The twins. It looks like twins then. Yes. So one would be John and as I say.
Peter
Jack is Jack, the other twins.
Andy
And then James, and then Louisa and Ethel.
Peter
Yep. So this is a, a family picture, I think somewhere around 1900 of, your great great great grandparents family, so Abe and Louisa are the parents. And you see those, twin babies, by the way? They’re in, baby baskets, looking real cute.
Andy
They are. They’re in cradles, cradle baskets.
Peter
Yeah. And they’re in there guys. And then the, the, the kind of like.
Andy
The wiggly kids.
Peter
Yeah. The wiggly kid. I hopefully I can, we can post this picture along with the episode maybe. But the kid who’s so wiggly, that his face is blurred in the photo because he’s definitely just, like, can’t sit still. I think we’ve all had that family picture. That is your great, great grandpa James.
So, we’re getting back to a time where it’s awfully hard or it gets harder and harder to find that good of information about women. You know, we’re at this time like, pushing back to, when we growing up at this time, you know, would never been able to vote until they were much older. And, you know, just, it’s often, history is men writing about men. And so it’s can be it’s a real. Chance and can be a tricky thing to find women’s voices in history. So with that in mind, I could only really find one particular thing about your great, great, great, grandma Louisa. Speaking.
But if you turn over the next page, we have the Lincoln County leader. And there’s one little paragraph. It says Mr. and Mrs. Abe Logan of Salmon River visited this old story the week. Mrs. Logan said, when the dairy inspector was inspecting the dairy farms of the salmon River, she got the credit for keeping the cleanest cans, pans, separator, barns and milk house of any person in the community. Some of the ranchers, were severely censured, for the untidy manner in which they kept their dairy in barns. The inspector, threatened to find them and stop their business if they did not clean up. So I really like this because, it’s Louisa. Really, like, expressing pride in her work. You know, I think they must have run a small dairy to help make ends meet. And, you have to think about how much work it would be back at this time. You know, no washing machines, no dishwashers to keep up a business. To keep a, you know, a family farm going and keep a household going. And, I think I just like this little tidbit that’s a demonstration of pride in that.
Andy
I think that’s pretty cool. And she got praise for it, like actual praise, because it’s not written down. You didn’t get raised.
Peter
Yeah. That’s right.
Andy
This got written down and published. That’s right. In the county paper.
Peter
So another thing, this next page is about the 4th of July celebrations, at Siletz back in 1903, again in the Lincoln County Leader, a high use Skookum celebration at Siletz. And it just seems like it was a real, real big old time. I’ll just, notice a few things. It says, on the stand there, gathered the choir, composed mostly of Indian girls, and Mr. Gates, the organist.
The grounds have been well decorated, and every convenience possible provided for the people. Roast beef was sliced and passed around all who desired it. And, the talks about the, the athletic events where, Bruce Butler won the 100 yard race, Eddie Cruel won for the boys. And, as a Ethlel Logan, it would be, you know, several greats auntie, won the girls 50 yard dash. And last, toward the end of the article, it mentions that Abe Logan as Marshall, was everywhere directing and helping. So that’s your three greats, Grandpa Abe. Being a part of a great, big, fun time. And so that’s, more, 120 years ago.
Andy
So as marshal of this event, you think similar to the Marshall of events we have now.
Peter
I think it’d be like, probably the grand marshal of the parade. It’s not, not totally clear to me. But but, yeah, I think he he was definitely in charge of something.
Andy
And so you said I have a great, great aunt in here mentioned, and then I see this other name. It matches a name previously mentioned. Cruel? Eddie Cruel.
Peter
Yeah. That’s right. So that would be on, Gertrude side of the family. That’s, your great, great grandma Gertrude’s oldest brother.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
And so. Yeah. Good, good, good. I, and you’ll start to see, more about this, about how, you’re interrelated because, you know, we looked at that picture that was only of the oldest Logan kids. They had, but he was telling me he thought maybe, including a lot of, babies who unfortunately died really young, maybe 14 kids overall for Abe and Louisa, and so.
Andy
They had 14 kids! Nice.
Peter
The course of time. Yeah.
Andy
Way stronger than me. I stopped at two.
Peter
Thats right. Yeah, I cannot imagine. And of course, they, you know, they were back at a time where people lost kids pretty frequently. But, you have a lot of relatives, that come from them. So Ethel Logan married Ed Case. There are a lot of tribal members who come from that case family. Their daughter Lily, married in Easter.
And, you know, on down in different generations, there are just like, yeah, this is back when people had big families so that there are a lot of people, who share this exact same, family history that you do.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
Anyway, so I think it would. I liked starting with that, happy time for for Abe. Because I don’t I don’t want to dwell on this, but I also, it felt like the most honest way was to, explain that, he really seemed to have had his troubles as a young man. And if we turn over the next page, I’m not going to mention the other names. But later that same year, in 1903, he was put on trial for, along with another silence man, over the killing of, another, Siletz Indian and, it seems like, fortunately, Abe was acquitted. The other fellow was, conveyed dead. And it seems like whatever happened, you know, was connected to, you know, personal conflicts exacerbated by, by alcohol, you know, the kind of thing that can still happen in communities and causes a lot of, a lot of pain.
But I think it’s also.
Andy
And what this was in 1903.
Peter
Yes.
Andy
Because that’s what this is. Yeah. And this was on The Oregonian.
Peter
That’s right. Yeah. The, it happened up in Portland. And so this is, what we’re looking at now is a is a courtroom sketch of, Abe and the other fellow, when they were on trial. And, so if we turn over the next page, this is talking a little bit about, the, it’s a longer article. This is just the headline. Of folks coming to testify in Logan’s defense, after the prosecution had given its case and there were, elders at the time, you know, who are explaining, his.
Andy
The situation.
Peter
Yeah. And so, yeah, I again, I don’t think it’s I think it can be a, but I put all the articles about this, into the digital file that I’ll give you this after if you want to explore it on your own. But for the listeners, I just don’t really think it’s. I want to explain, you know, that there are painful and difficult parts of our families histories. I not shy away from that, but not dwell on it either.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
So, it’s important to say, another big theme of the history that we deal with, and the, the knowledge, the tribal knowledge that’s still around. Is the elders, including your great great great grandpa Abe, who were, considerate and willing enough to when it when these, linguists and anthropologists, come to town to like because Siletz was such a place of a hotbed of linguistic diversity and cultural knowledge.
Still is, of course, but, especially back in the early 20th century, and a lot of what we do, you know, in the language program now is thanks to these elders, who sat down with these guys, and some women, who wanted to come in, record their language. And now, you know, we can benefit from that today.
And so one such elder, when he was, 73 years old, was your great, great, Grandpa Abe. So we’re looking at the, field notes. And I didn’t transcribe these, so I’ll go ahead and read them. Might be easier.
Andy
Yeah. It’s, it’s a copy. Yeah. It’s old handwritten notes.
Peter
Exactly. It’s it’s just like a little, like a composition notebook that you you get.
Andy
I gave my kid when he went to school this year.
Peter
Exactly. Yeah. And in this, this is from the National Anthropological Archives. Outside the DC. And these are just a couple select pages of, more than 100 pages of this, this guy Philip Drucker, in the 1930s, spent days and days just interviewing your great, great grandpa Abe about, his culture, his experience, what he knew.
So I’ll read a couple passages here. He’s talking about canoes. And of course, Abe, as far as I can tell, he was born very early on in reservation days. But that means that all his, his parents and all the elders that he was raised around with are people who lived full lives, you know, back before removal, back on the rogue River attitude, where his father was from and he said they used to go all over the bar, went out with the tide, came back at slack tide, or turn of the tide, went out to sea fish, sea lion, mussels, etc. some old people had songs for use outside to keep the canoe from splitting. Dreamed about it. Could teach to members of their family. Sometimes was just as good as if they use it right. So talking about, songs that when you’re out in the ocean, you would sing, you know, to just kind of be spiritually prepared for that experience and to have good luck out there. And also he talks about, they, just gave a feast for the canoe, when they finish it. Not, when they start work on the log. Five man canoe might be worth about $100. As in one of the longest strings of dental, you. So I think that’s really amazing because it’s like it’s talking about, you know, culture that’s way back to to the villages that your family comes from, you know, and this is this is your blood. This is your, your family talking about it. And that’s a memory that’s like, you know, by with this little page of this notebook in the middle is like, all the way back in tribal history for you to a time when people were still, like, making canoes, being, you know, trying to find the proper spiritual way to, like, go out and and live off the land in the way that they needed.
Andy
So I have a question about this. How do you how do you have a feast for the canoe or you? This is that they gave a feast to the canoe. What is can you do you know what that means? I don’t know what that means.
Peter
Yeah. So I think that must just mean, you know, hosting a feast, to dedicate, a boat when you finish it. Because you have to think about making a dugout canoe out of, out of a a log down there like that is a lot of work. And he also talks a few pages later about, how canoes would be given names, based on their attributes, like, straight rudder, if it was, if it was faster, I, and we need that we need of our language teacher to really, get it. All right. Okay. Give them the language. But but the point is, like. So it was.
Andy
It was kind of a celebration, like a birth of the canoe.
Peter
Exactly.
Andy
Yeah. Okay. And then they named it.
Peter
That’s right.
Andy
That’s amazing. Yeah.
Peter
So. And then some other things. On the next page, he talks about, he talks about a lot of folks is long distance traveling in canoes, going down. No one quite on Smith River or, Toshi on the the Klamath River might take 5 or 6 days. Stopped over at night. Had no way to see, when they were at the ocean. Once in a while, I would go as far north as you. Yaquina Bay made these trips for a good time and trade or for wars.
Andy
So where was he if going north was quite some. Some distance.
Peter
Yeah. So – So he’s talking about I think he’s really talking about like his father’s generation still living back down on the Rogue River.
Andy
Okay, before removal?
Peter
Yeah. Okay. And going all the way up. And because that’s the thing that you don’t always see very much of, but but, you know, was definitely going on is that our people, you know, long distance trading and having families from a long way off. So he’s talking about the process. And like you starting down on the road down by Gold Beach and, you know, paddling for for five, six days to get down to the Klamath or for just as long to paddle all the way north to Yaquina Bay.
Peter
And, you know, that’s kind of that, that deep time, that interconnection, from way back in village days.
Andy
I find it really cool because I spend a lot of time at Yaquina Bay, I love going to Yaquina Bay. Yeah, I don’t go to the beach much. It’s always windy. It’s always rainy. Not a big fan of the weather, but Yaquina Bay has the best shells. And that’s where I always find the best shells. And I hike down there all the time with my kids to get shells.
Peter
Yeah, that’s a real special place to me, too, because it’s where, my grandpa would take us, crabbing and clamming. You know, he had a boat, and they lived in Newport when I was little, and. Yeah, it’s it’s a really awesome, spot. And, you know, some of our, our folks, some tribal members descend from, tribal people who have always been right there.
And some of our folks descend from the road. But it’s really cool to know that, like, way back before any confederation, any reservation, anything, any treaties, whatever. Folks, we’re we’re getting together, you know, we’re play games, gamble with each other. And I’m sure you know, marriages and other and relationships would come out of that, too.
So, yeah, it’s like deep interconnection, like way back in deep time. And this is your again, your great, great, great grandpa remembering it. And the next page, I think, though I’m not sure that these are probably his drawings of what, you know, kind of a schematic from this notebook of what a traditional plank house would look like. So he’s got the logs, supporting the roof boards. And showing, the fire pit down in the bottom. And I think he probably, took over the the notebook, from this guy Drucker and just, you know, drew the houses to see remember them when he was a little kid.
Andy
He’s like, you’re doing it wrong.
Peter
That’s right. So now, we’re going to, Oh. And I should say, in these same notes, he talks about, what he remembered of his own ancestors. So he, he says in these same notes, he talks about what he thought was his father’s father’s, sweat lodge way back at the village institute, and, and gives, gives his father’s father’s name as, ________, which means, Nick thinks, which would mean, sharp tooth. And also talks about how other folks on the reservation who were from the Illinois River in southern Oregon would, would call him cousin because his mother’s mother was from the Illinois River. So when we’re talking about that memory, we’re going back to your great, great, great, great great grandparents. From these same notes.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
Which is pretty, pretty wild. So next, we’re going to be looking a little bit at, Louisa. Woodman, Abe’s wife’s side of the family. So her parents.
Andy
But not Abe side of the family.
Peter
Well, so we, that was as far as far as I was able to get on on a side of the family. Okay? And we can we can look at this, family tree I printed out for you here. So he he talks in those notes about how here and actually. Take the big one.
Andy
The big one. Okay.
Peter
It’s easier to read, but, Yeah. So so that’s, that’s what I know of the that Logan side. From what Abe says in those notes. And then also, it’s important to note that, Abe had a couple of siblings. Larky Annie, who married and became a Winkler. So there are lots of Winkler descendants and Bangor. Logan. So there, once again, this is this is a big family of folks who who share that history. And then, yeah, we’re just going to be jumping sideways over to Louisa’s family. Okay. And her, her parents, who are also, as far as I can tell, to Tootooney and Chetco, John Woodman.
So chapter five is about, Scun-nus-ta. Mr.. John Woodman. Go ahead and, turn over the page. You are looking at your, four greats, grandpa, John Woodman in his.
Andy
That’s very handsome native man right there.
Peter
Yeah, I think so. Look at them cheekbones, Yeah. So, for the listeners, he’s, wearing, kind of like a, like a workwear, but, but a suit, like a heavy jacket, like in a striped shirt and a vest. Looks like maybe jeans, you know, kind of casual, but. Yeah, white hair, like a really, really handsome older fella.
I think he was probably about 80 in this picture. He passed away in 1919. And, so this is the first time in these kind of notes where, I am directly, finding the original, names in indigenous languages for folks in your family. So if we turn over the page again, this is, a little excerpt from an 1878, family list put together by the agency just listing the the, the head of each family, and then the number of people in their household, so it gives, John Woodman’s name as Scun-nus-ta, which it translates as father’s child.
I can’t quite figure that out. I talked a little bit about it with Nick. But it’s a really cool, important resource because I know for me, growing up, I know I had no idea about, you know, my family going back to when people would have, names in their own language.
Andy
So Skanska Oscar.
Peter
I think so, yeah.
Andy
Okay. And is that. That’s not our Athabaskan. That is.
Peter
It is, but it’s written by out by an Indian agent who didn’t speak the language. Right. Okay. So it’s like a different alphabet system than we use now. Okay. And so I’m not sure about the details of pronunciation. I’d have to or figure it out with,
Andy
With our language.
Peter
Yeah, yeah, with, with Nick, who’s our language expert, but. Okay, for a lot of the other two men, you know, that same document gives their original name. So I think it’s something a lot of folks are going to be curious about. Next page over, is, John Woodman and, Louise’s younger brother, Patty.
In the 1890s at census, where this is a cool one. Because it gives way back at this time, it gives people’s tribal affiliations, you know, lists him as, as to me, and, so another, another thing turning over the page again. We’ve got a little item, from the Lincoln County leader. You know, you can see these newspapers at the time that we’ve been reading. Like, they cover everything. It’s just like so-and-so is in town to get eggs. It’s kind of. Well.
Andy
The town crier.
Peter
That’s right. And so in, in 1900, when your four great grandpa, John was, was about seven years old, it says here, Mr. Brown and Brown are busy erecting a small home for John Whitman. And then over on the next page, few years later, and in 1903, it says report has it that John Whitman is as young, as he used to be and contemplates, taking the plunge into matrimony.
Before long. I just really like that, a a guy, you know, more than 70. That was.
Andy
Hot goss.
Peter
With a widower. But then just thinking, like, Yeah, I it’s about time to get back out there on the market. I just and show some, I don’t know, some personality.
Andy
So he was widowed then?
Peter
Yes.
Andy
Yeah. Okay.
Peter
And that’s if we go back to that 1890 census when he’s listed as aged, 53 and a widower. And so this is a long time after that.
Andy
Oh, I see that now. Yeah. I read I was I was reading other things.
Peter
Oh, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of information on page. There’s a lot of names.
Andy
It was interesting. Okay. So he is do you, do we know when he was widowed?
Peter
I don’t think that I’ve been able to figure that out. Okay. Yet.
Andy
You found out a lot already. I’m impressed.
Peter
Yeah, but there’s, But I think his wife, Polly. And we’re getting back to a time where a lot of men, especially if they were. If were prominent, if they were doing well for themselves, would, in their early reservation days, have multiple wives if they could support a great big family. You know, again, going back to Abe’s father, he talks about his dad, Jim Logan, having having four wives.
And so I, I don’t fully I haven’t been able to track all that down for John Woodman yet.
Andy
Okay.
Peter
But. And then, next page over from 1909. Again, this is, you know, kind of troubled history, but it talks about, John Woodman being hospitalized, getting beaten up, sometime in the night and, and Abe Logan, his son in law, being arrested for the crime.
Andy
Is this the same a woman, a Logan from the previous story? Yes. Okay.
Peter
Yeah. So it was just to say that, you know, not everybody gets along with their in-laws. And that seems to have been true, at least at this time. But ten years later, when, John Woodman passed, there’s a really a it seems like a much different situation. So I’m just going to read this whole thing in full, this is again from July 4th, 1919, and the Lincoln County leader.
The big news from Siletz is that John Woodman, who died at Abe Logan’s near Devil’s Lake June 20th, was the oldest, Indian living on the reservation. He was one of the warriors, that was brought to the reservation in 1857. He was then 25 years old, making him 87 when he died. It is said that John Whitman, who was born and lived near the mouth of the rogue River, helped to roll a log so near the fort, that was occupied with white soldiers, that one of the Indians set fire to the fort and drove the soldiers out.
This was a scheme of John Woodman’s during the rogue River War, to keep Indians from being shot. The same kind of strategy was used by General Jackson in New Orleans to like the the English only Jackson use, bags of cotton instead of logs. After John Woodman, was conquered, he made no more trouble. All for the government, but lived a quiet and uneventful life upon the reservation up to the time of his death.
He was buried at Siletz. The funeral being conducted by, Reverend Walter Ross, pastor of the Methodist Episcopal Church at this place. So. But before I continue, I think that’s really amazing to have that family connection, just like here reported in the local paper about your family, your blood being, you know, warriors. Yeah, the rogue River War. So that that did happen. There was a fort at the mouth of the rogue, that our folks did attack, I think probably right around like February of 1856. And where we had the, the miners there, under siege for, for a little while. And I didn’t know very much about, you know, from records at the time, you don’t really know, like, who was there personally.
But here in John Whitman’s obituary, not only does it say he was there, he says what he did was to protect his people.
Andy
His concocted idea. Yeah.
Peter
And so the last, last paragraph of this is, Mr. and Mrs. Abe Logan, wish to express their thanks through the leader for the many acts, of friends during the illness and death of their father, and especially for the many, beautiful, floral offerings placed upon the grave. So I think that that’s a really good place to end, because we’re come full circle.
That is that, you know, they’re expressing that same gratitude to the community that your family was saying about your your grandma, you know, the, the, the document that we that you gave me that kicked all this off, it it that is your great, great great grandparents expressing that same community gratitude about your great, great, great great grandpa.
Andy
You can use fingers if you need to.
Peter
I don’t yeah. Was it? Yeah. For grace.
Andy
That is really, really awesome. I honestly, I like that he was. We did not go down without a fight.
Peter
That’s right. Yeah. But. And had a had a long life like 87. Yeah. Actually, back then.
Andy
The oldest living Native American on the reservation.
Peter
And, and as we saw in that picture, handsome right up until the end.
Andy
Heck yeah. That was one handsome fella. Can’t tell about his wiggle butt child.
Peter
Yeah. Or. Yeah. Grandchild. So. So we’ve been going for a while. And I think maybe this is a good place to leave it off for part one.
Andy
You were right. This is a really great place to leave it because you’re. It’s that it started. We started with the ending, the passing of my grandmother. We to end with the passing of my four, five times great. Four, four times great grandpa. Thank you, Peter, for putting all this together.
Peter
Of course.
Andy
And I want to point out that this is a service that you guys do. You guys do do family trees correct with our our tribal members?
Peter
Yeah. And, and what I especially want to do is, because, you know, honestly, there’s some this took some work and is more than I could do for absolutely everybody, but it’s great to do, because like I said, you’re part of some big families, and there are a lot of people who share this exact same family history that we’re going to be talking about, and they all benefit from that directly.
But also, I’m talking about the kind of, tools that are free and available online, that you can use to find this same stuff. All of these newspaper articles, come out of a free, searchable database that the University of Oregon, puts up. So, there’s a lot more that I didn’t include here, especially a lot of those fun little, like, slice of the slice of life details like, oh, they’re visiting in Toledo and they’re seeing their, their friends or, oh, they’re going to Portland to have a great big time.
You know, you can really see, you know, just just like you can from select news that you put together today and, you know, see people’s graduations and, and life events, you know, that you can you can find that for your own family, back with these same kind of resources. So I, I love helping people out, but I also want people to feel empowered like that this is research that that you can do on your own. And there’s, and there’s more out there to find.
Andy
Send me some links and we’ll put it in with this podcast. So that way people can use these tools to explore it themselves.
Peter
I will, and, I think another thing I did a video about how to do your own family history research for our virtual culture camp a couple of years ago. So we’ll link to that.
Andy
Okay. Let’s do it. Cool. Thank you, Peter, so much, for this great start. And I am excited for part two.
Peter
Let’s do it.
Andy
All right.